i'm done with this whole intolerant pit.
may you find everything you are looking for.
You're great. Check in once in a while, okay?
i may come every-so-often to see the state of this place.
wont they speak russian?
"A loving man and woman in a committed relationship can marry. Dogs, no matter what their relationship, are not allowed to marry. How should society treat gays and lesbians in committed relationships? As dogs or as humans?"
some there do know english, very well actually.
I wish you all the best. May you find happiness wherever you can.
I'll keep fighting the anti-religion here as long as I can, though I fear the battle will never be won.
Know that you will be missed, and that you will be welcome here if ever you choose to return.
God be with you.
it's battle i have to fight on my own. all i wanted to do was try to live in harmony with those around me, yet that only works in theory i now know. maybe someday i will return to be a "regular" if the IRC server crashes or some other disaster occurs.
i really appreciate the "God be with you." thank you.
may every endeavor you pursue be plentiful in good fortune.
Nobody is anti-religious here. Are you high?
From what I read out of the comments on the last section, it seems you're being very close-minded about this, especially with Jeff...
We're not anti-religious. But we don't like it to be shoved on us. We're not going to praise YOUR God. And considering the standards for LGBT people that most religions uphold, no, we're not very fond of them because they all tell us we're going to Hell or the equivalent.
But we don't discriminate anybody...
Anyways, have fun with your Russians. Maybe they'll like your whining as much as we do :I
if you ever got to know me, you would realize what this is about. don't go around persecuting me for being a religious person. you confuse to many things. maybe work on Theology, then come back to me and see what you got. you are very close minded, plus you just love to insult (i think).
I didn't say a word against you except that you're a whiner! Which is true! Nobody's persecuting you here. Noooobody. I have NO problem that you're religious, I have a problem with how you're going about it! XD
Man, are you for real? All I told you was that nobody here is anti-religious! Haha! I'm not insulting you, I'm telling you the honest-to-your-God truth! Jesus, I can't even believe you right now.
I'm not close-minded. I'm telling you I have nothing, NOTHING, against religion. I'm religious myself! But I do have a problem with people creating a problem when there's no need for one. Nobody's being mean to you here, except maybe me, but that's because you're being so illogical about this whole thing.
Do you even know what persecution MEANS?
And if you're done, why are you still replying?...
i'm trying to make a point. but you don't want to hear it. it's been this way all of my life. i get into a place where i am accepted and then thrown out of or persecuted. just like the first group of people i told i was gay to, then i got stoned (with rocks of course).
i am making my own self exile because we can never get along just because i believe in a God.
apparently i have no right to make an opinion, or to get offended. all i get is hatred and misunderstanding. i wanted to live in harmony and peace among you all. i thought this place was supposed to be supportive, i was tricked. you mock me and say i'm illogical.
remember when you wanted this place to stop being so depressing? that was illogical. and wanting to live in peace and harmony is also illogical now that you have showed me.
thanks for making my faith stronger.
Masallah Allahu Akbar
And that offends me... Not the fact you believe in God.
DO YOU HEAR ME?
I DON'T DISLIKE YOU BECAUSE OF YOUR GOD
I DISLIKE YOU BECAUSE OF HOW YOU ARE ACTING RIGHT NOW
Damn, do I have to say it in bold for you to GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD?
NOBODY CARES THAT YOU PRAY TO A GUY IN THE SKY. We care how you tell us we hate you and you're PERSECUTED when really, WE DON'T CARE. We don't care. We don't care AT ALL. Do you get that? Whether or not you're religious, I judge you on your actions.
And really, EXILE? Exile. You're gonna use that word? For real? This is a website not a tribe. You're welcome to stay. However, going around shouting that everyone hates and persecutes you is NOT going to get you friends.
Man, you only hear what you WANT to hear though. But that's where I come in! I bitch to the people who don't listen to the ones who are polite about these things!
shelby, je t'aime
What power does Hell have over its minions if they cannot dream of Heaven?
i can make an anolgoy. youve heard that God hates the sin not the sinner right?
some on oasis dont like reliogen, but they dont dislike you.
I don't feel like digging up the last journal, so I'll just say it here.
To my knowledge, nobody has really said/done anything to bash you here. You won't even tell us what sparked this. I don't read every single comment, so I might be missing something, but you can't take every little difference in opinion as a personal attack. I'm an atheist, and I don't feel persecuted when a Christian friend talks about church or a Muslim friend about her prayer rugs because I've realized that not everyone is the same as me, and that's okay.
You almost seem to have some weird little persecution fetish, but no one here is persecuting you, at least to my knowledge. I haven't seen anyone tell you that you can't be Catholic or that they don't like you for it. I don't hate Catholics, and I have no desire to persecute you guys. My favorite relatives are even Catholic.
Religion and me are like oil and water, but I don't hate religious people. I only have a problem when people like my mom try to push their beliefs on others, and even atheists like me are capable of that. I'm not "anti-religion" because it can and does help some people who feel they need it. It's just not for me personally.
you think i'm trying to convert?
No, I said that's the only time I feel uncomfortable with religious people. I never said you were out to convert. I never said I had a problem with you, but I'm afraid I might be starting to since you fail to grasp a few basic concepts such as the following:
Disagreement does not equal persecution.
It IS possible to be friends with people who are different than you.
Not everyone is exactly like you.
you have a msulim freind!? no fair i want a muslim friend! i cant expet the internet or a book to get me to understand islam!
Oh, yeah, I have one! :D The Helpful Junior who pops up in my journals sometimes is Muslim. She doesn't talk about it much, though.
i love muslims primarily dew to my intense protective feelings twords fellow minorities, and becuase it ticks off society, and becuase of all the injustice that happens to them. but i craze to know what they stand for more. i cant trust the media or any western writing, and i cant trust the friendly muslim internet homepage, both of which are biased
I will miss you. Good luck. I must say, though- where are these anti-religion comments I'm hearing about? I read everything and haven't seen any. Granted, I have a bunch of posts from 2-3 days ago I still need to read, but... I'm sorry if I've done anything. It's really too bad. You're a great contributor to this site and it won't be the same. I won't get to throw a comment-party for the 25th Something of Interest like I'd wanted.
I'm not exiling you. I don't think anyone is. But if you feel you need to leave... I won't stop you. It sucks. But... goodbye.
Let Lone Wolf go. He's made his choice, and all you're doing is confirming that it's the right one. He's right about how anti-religious people here can get, and if you're going to deny it rather than try to correct it, he's perfectly justified in leaving this whole intolerant pit.
I will be Lone Wolf's champion if I must. You can all fight me. Just let him go.
Who was being anti-religious? And what they said? Proof please.
these three. That's when it showed up on my radar, not sure what happened before then...
I'm sure I could have said something similar to any of that earlier, too, but I don't recall any of it.
"Wanting to be someone else is a waste of the person you are." - Kurt Cobain
And as far as it seems, nobody was saying anything against religion, you made some observations, but nothing like "Man, you know, I really HATE religious people"... I'm really confused still.
Thank you. Yes, that wasn't good, and I am now going to revert back to I-agree-with-MacAvity mode.
I agree with MacAvity.
We're not being an "intolerant pit." For some reason, he thinks that people disagreeing with him equals persecution, and we're just not getting that. Maybe something I don't know about happened, but he won't tell us what sparked this, so we can't do anything about it.
FYI, the original post here was edited, in case anyone's confused why ferrets seems to be randomly going on about people speaking Russian, and why no one references Oasis being an intolerant pit in their comments.
The choice has been made. I'm not happy about it but if Lonewolf is leaving it's going to happen.
I wasn't denying the anti-religious comments. I just don't know what/where they are. I'm asking for clarification.
People here can be intolerant. I know that. I'm sure I've added to it at some point.
I feel regret and am expressing it. I won't hang on to Lonewolf. A decision is a decision and it's personal. I have no right to mess with it.
Have I ever said anything anti-religious here? I don't think so... If I did, itwas an accident. I think religion is good. It's only bad when people push it onto others. I'm sorry if I'm making this hard, Lonewolf, it's just how I feel. I'm sorry and once more, good luck.
(Okay, Jeff, that makes sense now.)
Those three instances (and there was more than one objectionable remark in each of the three) ought to be enough. They probably are the most glaring examples, but they're not the only ones. Another good recent example is here:
'Intolerant pit' is a bit of an exaggeration, yes, but this is supposed to be an Oasis. A little patch of sanctuary in the midst of a desert. We come here to escape intolerance, not reverse it.
I'll try to frame this in a way we can all understand. Just as much of the rest of the world is tainted by a not-always-explicitly homophobic attitude, so this site is pervaded with an anti-religious attitude. The atheists claim that their belief is more 'logical' or 'rational' and therefore superior - well, you know what, heterosexuality makes more sense from a logical standpoint as well: biologically, sex exists for purposes of reproduction, and only heterosexual intercourse can fulfill that purpose. Weirdly enough, homosexuality and spirituality have a lot in common - they're both illogical, they both bring persecution upon their practitioners, they both exist nonetheless and should be accepted rather than condemned.
Lone Wolf never pushed his beliefs onto anyone. Never. All he did was express them - he was not a closet theist. I'm proud of him for that, very proud. Some of the atheists here, on the other hand, exalt their own views or speak disrespectfully of religion - whether for its lack of rational basis, or for all the atrocities that have been committed in its name, or for any other reason. Nobody has actively pushed conversion in either direction, but it was only ever the atheists I saw to tout their side's superiority.
We've found four examples, powerful and recent ones, of anti-religious remarks. I challenge you to find anything Lone Wolf ever wrote that could be construed as anti-atheism.
They are all anti-religion, but not anti-religious, which is a subtle but important distinction. The statements were broadly about religion, but none were against people of religious faith. The line was respected, as near as I can recall.
I would have a problem with me or anyone else condemning anyone on Oasis for their religious beliefs, but anyone is free to write a journal saying why they don't want to have religious beliefs. Again, it's a fine line. On one hand, you're sharing your thoughts, but they clearly oppose someone else's.
Organized religion being anti-gay leading to anti-gay sentiment on a gay website isn't some new revelation.
And the foundation of atheism is science, so nice try, but since homosexuality exists in nature, it doesn't need a reason. It isn't about logic or trying to make sense of the world. There is no master plan or design, just facts. If gay people exist, therefore... gay people exist for some reason. Population control? Who knows?
And most of the atheist talk was on a post *about* atheism, and other posts and comments in reaction to the original post about atheism, to be fair. It's not like it started on a Lady Gaga forum. ;-)
And, lastly, it's nearly impossible to be anti-atheism. It's hard to rile up an atheist. The construed persecution is all one-way here.
I don't care whether lonewolf leaves or not, that's his decision to make and that's the end of that.
But I will say my concern now is people will be treading on eggshells and too scared to voice their opinions, however 'intolerant' that opinion seems to be, fearing the offence it might cause. An intolerant view is a view nonetheless, and hiding it only provides it immunity from criticism.
It is good that lonewolf voiced his dissatisfaction. But I see people here are starting to say they aren't 'anti-religious' (whatever that label is supposed to mean) seemingly to diffuse tension. People don't need to self-censor their opinions or criticisms of religion, because in the same way lonewolf should never had to self-censor his faith. What people have to understand is religion is a spectrum, although the criticisms people had were not baseless but instead directed at religious conservatism (which definitely exists) that needs moderation. Since lonewolf doesn't even self-identify with such conservative beliefs, I think all the drama on here just feels like two ships passing at night.
Bye-bye Lonewolf! I'll miss your things of interest and information on guitar, especially as I don't often meet people who play classical as well.
An Irish blessing for you:
May the road rise to meet you, may the wind be always at your back, and until we meet again may God hold you in the hollow of his hand.
I'll miss you, come back soon, please.
Hmmmm... I see that a lot of my journals are being cited here as "anti-religious". First of all, if anyone ever feels I'm being a stupid asshole, tell me, pm me, even call me a stupid asshole, call me a motherfucking moron, whatever, but I write journals in a passionate state, and I'm not afraid to voice my views. Intolerance of opposing views is exactly what I'm trying to get past here.
I've deleted journals before because they were unfair or mean, and will undoubtedly do so again, as I vent here, and my form of venting is stimulating conversation.
As for Lonewolf, he's voiced his concerns, copiously I might add, and I looked at them but I didn't see any problems with what I wrote.
The one about people theory, so far all I saw was the Catholic priest raping thing, which I explained in my comment. I don't think I was being unfair.
The one about the loneliness of atheism, I think the strife came in the comments, and the journal anyway was more about the negatives of atheism than those of religion.
And as for the one I posted last night, most of it was not about religion at all, save for the last bit, which I explicitly mentioned was a personal observation, one thing I've noticed. Frankly I believe it would be an overreaction to get offended.
So, I never decided to delete any of the journals because I felt there was nothing unfair about them, even after the fact. However, the amount of strife and hate and picking of sides this has caused is really poisonous, not my intention, and I don't know why it came about, I'm truly clueless in the extreme as to where any, let alone all of this is coming from. And so I shall delete all the journals, although I will save the people theory on my own computer and maybe run with that in the future, as I think that was one of my best journals I've written on this site.
No one escapes from life alive
To be clear, I wasn't saying your journals were the offensive bits, but moreso where the discussion I'm aware of took place, mainly in the comments.
I fail to see how this discussion makes you want to get off, though. That's a bit of an odd reaction.
YOU'RE a bit of an odd reaction.
Well, either way, if it can cause this much strife, I officially have the ability to delete all the comments as well as the journal, as much as it breaks my heart.
Yeah, this conversation is sure stimulating me right now, it's stimulating me right up.
If you ask the guy who runs the site, he can actually "unpublish" things without deleting them, and then make them reappear at a later date... so I've heard.
fuck no, don't delete that journal
Please, don't delete anything. We need to address this problem, not deny that it has been. I don't have time now to argue anything, but when I do, I will. Just don't delete the journals.
he already did it. ;-(
I hate the deletion of journals! To me deleting posts feels like trying to change history/deny what has happened. And that just makes me think 1984. But... awww... too late. I don't see anything wrong with people stating why they are or aren't religious in itself, but that did get over-the-top and yes, intolerant. That's not a good thing and Lonewolf's leaving makes sense, though it is a bit extreme. It may prove to be a good choice and it may not. It makes me sad, but if Lonewolf believes it's for the best, it is. It's no one's choice but the person being hurt, who has a rather good reason.
I agree with MacAvity again on the whole 'heterosexuality' argument. Jeff, just because atheism is (mostly) based on science doesn't make that whole comparison any less true.
I actually have a timer of how-long-I'll-be-on-before-returning-to-homework going and it just timed out, so I'll stop here.
Cant believe i missed all this. Oh well lonewolf you are gone but you will be remembered.
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