how do you all feel??

11 January, 2008 - 9:56pm — Lost Angry Youth

just a little background..have considered myself straight with some insecurities about my sexuality,thought about if I was gay for the longest time but it just didn't fit right (no pun intended lol) nor did I ever feel like I was really 'gay'.Thought about if I was Bi also but the feelings just didn't feel right as well.I identify more with being straight but with a horrible sense of loss in terms of me dealing with my same sex attractions/affections, I used to consider myself Bi because I did have alot of interest and affection for the same sex..upon thinking about it some more I realized I felt like I wanted more of a 'hetero' friendship with other guys, talking about girls and just being 'guys',which I have always been..rough,tough and sock em types.Though initially I may have strong sexual attractions and affections,it quickly fades into a deep sense of respect for another..just as being 'a man'.I really like that masculine energy and being around other guys,all rowdy and shit lol.It makes me feel good and accepted.I have more interest in being and feeling accepted then I have ever had a curiosity or desire in being with a man sexually.Though of course I was curious..I think all really sexual and horny guys are at one point in their lives,even straight guys.

But with an inability to really share positive or
show any sense of caring towards another male..I have become stunted and blunted in my ability to share any type of affection or caring towards
another male without feeling insecure or god forbid..homophobic.
Being that I do have alot of feelings of affection and attraction towards them in the first place it may come out wrong like I am trying to hit on them or whatever..when really I am not,I am just going with my feelings and how to deal with them,I only know how to show affection in one terms and it's sexual.That's also weird because I used to think being with a guy might be exciting but in real life and in their presence of an actual person,though I feel attracted to them and affection it feels more like I am seeking approval,acceptance and their attention..to be one of the guys or just friends.

I am just having a hard time learning in how to deal with my affections and attractions to the same sex without feeling all homophobic about it.
It's not really that I am insecure about those feelings, but the strange thing is..I am actually more insecure about my sexual feelings with females.Being that the feelings and affections I have for guys are familiar,I understand where they root from and why I have them..It reminds me of my relationship with my dad,splintered,ambiguous, and
uncomfortable.I really do want that connection and depth of relationship with other males..but not a sexual one though my affections and attractions might feel intense,I used to mistake it as being sexual ..but the more and more time goes by,the more I realized I was seeking not just a connection with a man but with mankind as a brother or brothers.
I never had that level of comradery,love, respect and power alot of most
confident guys have.I wanted that and seen that in my actions,why I was always this tough,wannabe 'alpha guy'..it was because I wanted to be the person I was lacking inside,I wanted to be like those guys that were tough,strong,courageous and daring.

But how strong can a man be,I mean really really be..if he can't even
have a emotional/mental even physical connection with another man
without feeling frightened,insecure or homophobic while in the presence
of other men??

I don't think a man could even be with a woman completely or as a
whole man without dealing with these deep and conflicted issues in the first place,it may leave him feeling splintered,lost,insecure and unsure of his masculine identity not to mention his sexual identity.

I often thought I was gay in the past..as a matter of fact,convinced of it in the past..but as time went by,I knew that would not satisfy me mentally,physically nor emotionally..I always knew,no matter how bad it got,no matter how horrible they may seem and up to no good,no matter how many trust issues or whatever issues I may have with them and no matter how much I curse them and swear to god I hate them and done with them..I know,I will always love and am only capable of loving someone 'that way',with a girl.I just know these things..I just feel it soo strongly ,I am just going through dealing with excess baggage with them and pain that it's sometimes unbearable to deal with.

All of this started when being taunted and called a fag for either being too sensitive or caring as a youth..though I quickly grew out of that and grew a tough skin not to mention a horrible persona of this tough guy image I have created for myself..it's like all the masculine traits exaggerated.I'd rather be a true 'tough guy' and be able to deal with other men and everything that comes along with it,talking,sharing,caring and just being a genuine real person with them instead of all this late 80s Sylvester Stallone macho bullshit...I am tired of playing that role,I want to actually be a person of real genuine strength and character not of just someone I made up and trying to be like..

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Discussion Forum

11 January, 2008 - 11:26pm — Lol-taire

Oh love, you and every man

Oh love, you and every man ever.

You know that optical illusion where you see an apparently normal face upside down, and then you see it turned the right way up and you realise that actually the smile was the wrong way up?
Well even if you haven't seen it, what I mean is that the mind fills in the blanks automatically. It glosses over internal contradictions.

And when it comes to sexuality everyone is bursting with contradictions. But normally we subconciously edit our sexuality into something workably coherent.

The 'you' part of your sexuality, as oppposed to the bit that's about your partner (not that they're in neat little boxes) is obviously going to be focussed on masculinity and the way you interpret it because you're a man.

It just sounds like you're not editing as vigourously as most people do.
As a result you've ended up learning a bit too much about yourself. Like after you know what's strange about the picture, you can't not see it.

It's like straight girls spend so much time looking at other girls. They don't want to sleep with them and they don't want simplistically to be them, but in other girls they can be looking for things they want to resolve in themselves or just seeing something they have in common.
Men don't really have the same outlet, or at least not as explicitly and certainly they're allowed to candidly admit to the fact they notice other men's physicality. I suppose that's the appeal of watching sports.
And of course it's difficult for men to touch non-sexually. Maybe that's part of the appeal of playing sports.

It's unfair though, because male children are as affectionate as girl children. Male babies are probably even more cuddly. But then you get to adulthood and they cut off all of that. And suddenly you're down to just one sort of touch. That must be difficult.

If it was the 17th century you'd be totally normal. The cult of male friendship.

Actually you can sort of blame the actual gays for making it more difficult to discuss openly deep, yet non-sexual same sex feelings. Because suddenly it started to look rather suspiciously queer.

Nothing wrong with that of course.

12 January, 2008 - 12:40am — Lost Angry Youth

thanks for that in depth

thanks for that in depth answer..I get what you mean about guys not being able to really talk about such things but then again feel it's okay to pat eachother asses on the football field but do it anywhere else and it's considered gay lol. I think that homophobia in todays world has left alot of guys,say in my similar situation,with nowhere to turn to or no real outlet to discuss such issues..I believe that most male insecurity does revolve around an uncertain masculine identity as well as being uncomfortable with their same sex affections/attractions..I am not talking about soley sexual attraction but ANY kind of affection,it turns guys into these broken soulless desperadoes - typical male stereotype,strong,silent with little to say..but they are left all screwed up inside..me being almost exactly like this.With such a burden on the psyche,how could anyone be with anyone else? let alone with a woman or someone whom they want more with? when themselves are so screwed up?

I think there is a thin line between sexuality and that everyone does have same sex attractions/affections,gay or straight - we all just interpret emotional cues and signals thus reacting to them differently as well as choosing which pertains to use most as well as identifying oneself with which feels the most comfortable to ourselves. In my younger years this all used to freak me out,not because I thought so much that I was gay/bi or whatever,but the inability to just allow myself to have those feelings and acknowledging that they even existed in me...only through experiencing those feelings hands on (pun?lol) did I realize what I felt,wanted and needed in my life.

More then anything I just want to be comfortable in my own skin and be able to be myself and just go with the flow..nothing to hold me back,
no labels no nothing.Only through having to go through such issues with my insecurities and being unsure of myself in the begin with was I able to
get to where I really wanted to be...myself.
(:

I never chose to be gay,straight or bisexual..I just knew where my heart belongs and what I want in my life -
(as gay as that sounds lol)

sorry,bad joke..I know..

12 January, 2008 - 1:55am — Lol-taire

I think it's good you can be

I think it's good you can be so honest with yourself.
What frightens me for straight guys is that because they are forced to alienate themselves from their sexuality (because the culture of male sexuality and wider male indentity is still so narrow in so many ways) that they end up resenting society and resenting women ultimately.

For ages women were told there was only one acceptable facet of their sexuality- motherhood/ procreation. And that was bullshit.
But if you look at it the way male heterosexuality is portrayed it's really limiting as well. It's this brash, macho, pornographic sort of ideal, which turns male desire into some sort of stupid cartoon caricature. I mean I can't actually comment obviously, but do you ever find that a bit insulting?

What I also think must be difficult is the prevailing idea that vulnerability in any way for men equals surrender or weakness. How do you actually cope with that? It looks like men are expected to live in a state of constant emotional warfare.

I suppose it is partly fear of being seen as gay, but then isn't that fear of being seen as effeminate, which is basically dirty old misogyny again.
I guess I sound all lesbian feminist (I mean I am a lesbian and I am a feminist... but it's just such a cliche). It's just how can men ever be comfortable just being men, just being themselves if they're worried about being ridiculed for 'acting like woman'?

I mean I can't stand awful heart-to-heart how-does-this-make-you-feel naval gazing, but that's so different to being able to have healthy discussions about the way you're thinking and what's making you unhappy- or even just a hissy fit once in a while to get rid of all the excess emotion that drives you mad. And men still aren't allowed to do that a lot of the time.

12 January, 2008 - 3:14am — Lost Angry Youth

I think it's different

I think it's different amoung the guys that are deemed as other alphas because the confident ones seem to mingle and get along fine ,even when it comes to horse play or just talking about deep stuff or 'guy talk' without feeling all insecure or unsure of themselves,though I often question about how much is allowed to be revealed and how much weakness shown is too much? obvious all out whining and desperate for affection or whatever is looked down on both sides because of it wreaks of desperation and just patheticness, but I often wonder where the line is drawn?

I don't mind accepting my feelings or whatever as they are..in effect,they are just feelings or thoughts and have no real control over me (typical guy brain eh? lol) but in general,I have a hard time just being able to trust other guys or allowing myself to really be friends with anyone..I have been screwed over so many times that it still pisses me off and makes me angry,nothing to do with anything sexual or anything like that or even being a gay/straight issue but more along the lines of a respect issue and one of boundaries.Seems like the only guys I get along with really are guys that I tend to be domineering towards and assert my presence in a way,both subtly and aggressively. It's a bunch of macho machismo BS but right now that's just how things are..I am trying to make it as that we are equals and not making it a thing of power nor status.

With girls it's the same thing but with girls it's like..where did it go? my heart is like *zoooouuup* M.I.A. I don't mind talking about this type of stuff with someone that I was friends with but when it comes to sharing anything remotely intimate with a girl it's like..no way.If you think all that sexuality stuff was hard to deal with,my issues with girls is so much more complicated and shunned basically. I can deal with and cope,understand and learn,grow from same sex affections/attractions but with girls- it's so much more difficult because they are such a source of pain and conflict but also a source of much anxiety,excitement and uncontrollable and irrational desires lol.

That's actually one of the things that made me realize and become more aware of my sexuality..the excitement and raw nervous enticement and energy I feel around an attractive girl is so foreign yet arousing to me on all levels that it literally pulls and draws me in.With guys it's more subtle,not as intense but more of an affectionate feeling (sounds gay I know) but if I were to have a brother ,I'd imagine that's how I would feel like towards him...