here's a discussion I had in a GD discussion with the creator of the thread "Homosexuality is Wrong."
Ooooh, homophobes, how fun! Oh mister angry conservative man, argue with me, I'M GAY!!!
And just to let you know, I find your arguement foolish. Why would I choose to be a second class citizen, choose to be in a discriminated community, to be hated by my father, bullied by schoolmates, etc etc. I tried changing back to heterosexuality, and that didn't work. I was seriously depressed because of my being gay, and I wanted to become straight like my brothers. But it didn't happen. I almost killed myself. I don't know if you're christian, but I am. I prayed to God and Jesus, begging to be "changed back." Never happened. Life was miserable.
Then one day, I was walking home in the rain. It had been a stressful day, and I began crying, first because of the day's events, which then snow-balled into me lamenting my entire life> I asked God to speak to me in some way, to tell me something of his big plan for me. Suddenly, the rain stopped. The sun came out. A breeze picked up, and it caressed my face. I suddenly felt really loved, like I was perfect. And not just me, everyone else was. I knew, then and there, that God loved me for who I was, not for who people wanted me to be. We are all his creations, all his children, and like any good parent, God loved me as much as he loves you. I know he does. He doesn't hate me, or you, or anyone at all. We are all one in his eyes.
And since I'm writing this, stating MY opinion, I'm going to go one step further. You may hate me (in fact by your post, I can make a good deduction that you really really do). But I don't hate you.
I love you.
Because I love myself. And I love God. And I know that God loves me. And I know that God is the ultimate role model. So, because I know these four things, I have to share this love with the world. Because if I loved some people more than others, I wouldn't be following God's example, now would I?
I'm not religious. I find the concept of an omnipotent deity presiding over Earth but not meddling in the affairs of humans to be completely incomprehensible. I cannot relate to you at any level.
But I do think you're overlooking/ignoring what I said at the beginning. Being gay was never my decision. Whether it was God or Genetics or some chemicals in my brain, I am unsure, but I do know one thing.
I never wanted to be gay.
At no point throughout my entire life did I ever try to be gay. Quite the opposite, I tried to be straight! I even tried to date girls. But even though I went through the motions, they didn't interest me. Which confused me because I wanted to marry a woman, have a natural child, raise a natural family. Heck, much of the values you claim are needed were there in my parents. Dad worked and brought home money, was the boss, and disciplined the children. Mom stayed home, cooked and cleaned, and was tender and loving to us. I wanted much the same in my family. But when I spent time with girls, it felt fake. Like going to school for the a career that doesn't make you happy. But I kept trying. And failing.
I'm interested, you may have answered this in an earlier post, but why would i make the "choice" to be gay? I don't see anything to gain from it. In fact, life is much harder for me now then when I was closeted. I'm a discriminated class, my father, as I said disapproves, as do both my brothers, and I was always pushed to be heterosexual. So, why am I still "choosing" to live this way?
I mean you should know this right?
Because there's something wrong with you. I suggest you seek therapy.
hahaha tried that. Didn't work. My heart still feels the way it does. And isn't listening to one's heart important?
Not if it tells you to be homosexual. You should find some way to eliminate those unclean urges.
I've tried everything else. What would you do? Enlighten me.
I don't pretend to understand the mind of a homosexual. When faced with any sort of inner turmoil, however, I simply will it to submit to me. Mind over matter.
Ah, so force myself to be something other than what I naturally feel. Isn't that by definition unnatural? When does nature CHOOSE to subjugate desires? I think you're being hypocritical.
And furthermore, loving another man isn't turmoil: like any love, it's bliss. Should I force myself to deny myself realizing love just to make you and others happy?
Happiness is irrelevant compared to moral righteousness. Furthermore, homosexuality goes against nature as homosexual sex does not create offspring.
Neither does sex with someone with condoms, or sex where the woman is using the pill, or sex with someone who is born barren. Yet I don't see you go and say that that sex is wrong. Are those sex acts wrong if we suppose that all of them take place between man and woman?
ANd are you sure you're not religious? Where else would this "moral righteousness" come from? What about these morals: love for thy neighbor, love for thy brother, honesty, peace, kindness, what says I can't do those things? And just becaus I can't have children through sex, is that the only thing that you have a problem with? What if two men could produce offspring: would you support it?
No, but the fact is that men and women have the ability to create offspring, even if they choose not to employ that utility. If you can't possibly create offspring through sexual intercourse (i.e. two males or two females), you should not have sex. It's not right.
My morals are my own. They come from myself. As for that 'love thy neighbor' garbage, I don't believe in that.
you didn't answer about the situation between an infertile man and a barren woman. What about that? Should these people, who will NEVER be able to create life through their own means, not have sex as well?
so what you're saying is that the entire world should subscribe to YOUR personal morals?
Did I ever force my views on anyone? No. Posting a thread in GD detailing my views is not shoving them down your throat - you can choose to ignore my posts if you want. You chose to inqure as to my beliefs and I am indulging you. Don't insult me with that question.
If you don't want to shove things down my throat, why post in the GD forum in the first place? Isn't that logic flawed? If you didn't want to force yourself on anyone, logic says you'd keep your opinions to yourself.
However, unfortunately for your apparently degrading logic, you have posted in a GD forum, which means FYI "General Discussion," with an underline under "Discussion." So let's actually discuss shall we, as opposed to your little game of stating your opinions then running away from defending them. Let's discuss this, let's be "MEN" and "MASCULINE" and talk about your opinions. If you don't want people to disagree with you anymore, you are perfectly free to sit down, shut up, and stay that way.
So, what is it gonna be? You gonna be a man, and answer my question, or are you gonna be all "feminine" and back down from a gay man's challenge?
At this point, he added me to his ignored list. Classic.