Less Visibility for Lesbians?
A little bit ago, Jeff wrote a journal entry about hte lack of lesbian youth, support, whatever content on the web.
I know that personally, I've run into the same problem.
And I wonder if this problem extends into the real world. I think that, to some extent, it certainly does.
A lot of GLBT youth fiction is more male-centric, not to mention the fact that the media (well, as much of it as I'm aware of...) seems to play up the gay male more than the lesbian. I mean, on most shows or in most movies or whatever, the token gay character is, well, male.
I know this extends into my hometown as well--there are a few out guys in my school, but no out females. None, not even in the few years before I came up to the highschool.
What do you guys think? Am I hallucinating or what?
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I think your totaly right.
I think your totaly right. Except for at my highschool theres more out lesbians ( me and at least 2 other girls are pretty much known around the school) and theres one out guy that i know of. But yes i find alot of the books and movies and tv shows are more male centered when it comes to gay content. I end reading male centered gay books and that i don't mind because i can still relate to them however with teh movies and tvs i can't relate as much and even when i do find a gay movie or tv show that has females in them its really hard to get my hands on them because theres so few of them.
~~~NO DAY BUT TODAY~~~
I think it's gay males that
I think it's gay males that dominate it, I mean you hear almost next to nothing about Trans and bi individuals as well.
This is the reason why it's
This is the reason why it's such a cool thing when a show like Buffy comes along with such an awesome lesbian storyline. If only there were more characters like Willow and Tara out there. Of course, I'd like to see some gay male storylines that are that gutsy and well-written too. Oh wait, I'm writing one! Sorry, couldn't resist. I can't for the life of me figure out why lesbians should be slighted this way. There are just as many of them as there are gay boys, and as far as television goes, girls can kiss on TV at least without everyone having big screaming fits and throwing food at the screen, so I'd think it would be a no-brainer to follow Whedon's example. Shows you what I know about TV.
Btw, I haven't forgotten my promise to star a lesbian hero in my next series of books. I'm going to have to do some mental gender bendin myself to pull it off convincingly. I'm already thinking about it. My first thought is it would be fun to do a zorro type superheroine, kicking asses in a world where women are forced to be all demure and princessy. With a year to think about it though, I could wind up with anything! Geez I'm getting excited about this! I need to get my mind back on Firma and finish this trilogy first. Otherwise I'll be lynched by angry readers before I can do the lesbian thing. lol.
- Pat Nelson Childs
"bringing strong gay
characters to Sci-Fi & Fantasy"
http://www.patnelsonchilds.com
http://www.amazon.com/shops/patnelsonchilds
I agree
I got a GLBT paper at the subway yesterday, and there was virtually no lesbian-osity in its pages, but much gay-male-osity. As a small example.
I think it's partially due to sexism, within and outside the gay community. Because Western society is still male-dominated, gay males have a unique place in society. While often emasculated, they are still powerful. No one outside the gay male community really objectifies them sexually.
With lesbians, however, it is a different story. As women, they are not the dominant gender, and the straight male fetish for lesbians is widely known about and even marketed to. This large market helps to undermine lesbians as a legitimate minority in their own right.
No one has a right to sit down and feel hopeless; there is too much work to do.--Dorothy Day
no you're certainly not
no you're certainly not hallucinating
We have all been injured, profoundly. (Donna Haraway)
I Am Out, Therefore I Am. (Okay, mostly.)
Yep
Definatly true. I think it is partially because lesbian culture is less out-there than that of gay men. But gay male culture is also very dominating, often very pushy in its style, which can sideline other issues. Also in a male-dominated world what do you think you'll hear about? (actually that should be lesbians)
"Sexual intercourse began in nineteen sixty-three (which was rather too late for me)"
Yeah, you guys all have
Yeah, you guys all have valid points...
It's interesting that sexism, something we supposedly have overcome, is still so prevelant in today's society. Obviously it's there, of course, but it seems like there are a lot less people out there pushing for equal rights between genders.
And as for web content and stuff like that...why aren't lesbians banding together more? Like in that GLBT paper the mouse that roared was talking about. I mean, I doubt that it was purely guys who put it together. So why weren't more of the females involved pressing female-related info/stories/whatever?
that is what we should
that is what we should do.
at my queer student organization we are way more guys than girls, but me and one or two other girls are very active and make sure to organize activities which are interesting for women.
what really annoys me is when people set out to talk about homosexuality and heterosexuality, and then they employ three categories: gays men, heterosexual men, and women. And even though they don't say it, they really mean heterosexual women when they say "women".
one example: there is this German gay cartoonist and writer (Ralf König). He is pretty popular and famous and his cartoons are really funny. But then that gay hero has an interview and he is asked for what audience he writes (only gays?, everyone?) and he insists that his stories are also really popular among women, and that gays and women often get along so well, because after all they are hunting after the same species: men.
O come on! have you ever heard that there are lesbians?? can't you say that it is gay men and STRAIGHT women who share their passion for men?
luckily most gay men I know are more open-minded.
We have all been injured, profoundly. (Donna Haraway)
I Am Out, Therefore I Am. (Okay, mostly.)
I agree, it's sexism. I
I agree, it's sexism. I think that society thinks lesbians are these big masculine women, and i also think that straight men feel threatened by that. It's as though they think lesbians will somehow be more powerful than they are since they are "more masculine," like they are trying to be straight men. The result is that they (straight men) push lesbians out of the media and such.
"It's like Dillinger once told me, 'It's always darkest just before they turn on the lights!'"
I think, yeah, like you can
I think, yeah, like you can watch totally homophobic Disney movies, and there will still be this totally stereotypical gay guy friend of the main character girl, and everyone just goes along with it. But lesbians? Bisexual? nope. I think sexism and racism are still very prevalent within the lgbt community, too, but that because what we do is so much about breaking down gender roles and stereotypes and bending society's concept of gender, and because there are lgbt people of all colors and cultures, our movement for recognition and equality has a tremendous potential to fight the "ism"s.
Butchies?
Also, there is even less visibility for... realistic butches? Whenever you see a show that kinda cameos a lesbian, often it's a crazy butch. Not believable at all. But, now you've got the L word. You can watch lesbians all day. But, they're all lipstick lesbians. Every single one except and F2M, and an androgynous-esque thing that would sleep with anything w/o a penis... Eh... I don't know what that is... I don't need to...
Back to the point... All that I'm saying is that there is hardly any visibility for actual Butch lesbians.
~haNa
well I am writing a film
well I am writing a film about lesbians so I hope that will make lesbains more visiable in the media even though its an indy film and probably will only play in a few local film festivals.
film
what will your film be called?
I just saw an awesome lesbian film at the Berlin Film Festival, maybe I'll write a forum post telling everyone to go see it ;-)
"Itty Bitty Titty Committee". I loved it. and it has at least two gorgeous butch lesbians in it. and various other shades of lesbians.
We have all been injured, profoundly. (Donna Haraway)
I Am Out, Therefore I Am. (Okay, mostly.)
I agree about the Buffy Thing..
Thats why people get excited/overly upset about lesbians in the media, because it isn't commonplace.
I love willow, I would almost say she made me realize I liked girls. Because I was heart broken when Her girlfriend died. I didn't care about buffy and her boyfriends, I was more interested in Willows romance..As a little girl.
Thinking you are beautiful is like an oreo cookie. You either love the inside, The outside, or the entire thing.
SHIT
when i was in junior high i had the BIGGEST crush on BUFFY (sara michelle geller)... and there's no shame in that! LOL. i watched the show for like 3 years becuz of her. Eventually i lost interest and stopped watching, so i never really saw the whole Willow/Tara lesbian storyline, but i have seen some reruns of it and i think its amazing that they had gay characters on such a cool show.
Dude, I still have a crush
Dude, I still have a crush on Buffy, and I've had it for years.
"Women in rubber will ALWAYS be flirting with me!" --Maureen in the musical RENT
I totally agree
When I was younger I always watched Xena (cuz Gabrielle was a little hottie) now, looking back, it seems like it was a pretty lesbian show.
3 wheels are better than 4!
Do they react that way because of who we are or because of your personality?
"I like to think it's me."
*coughs*
Yeah, I see Xena as a butch lesbian. I love her!
~~Gay and Here to Stay~~
Xena...
It seems like a pretty lesbian show to me too, but I think only because I was looking for it.
I used to watch it as a kid, and then we rented the first few seasons on Netflix...and it was just screaming "LESBIAN!" to me. On the other hand, my Dad read the little summary on the cover that mentioned the lesbian fandom, and was like, "What?!" and was all confused.
I think that one is in the eye of the beholder. As opposed to, y'know, Queer as Folk or the L word, which are two very obviously "gay" t.v. shows.
i think the reason lesbians
i think the reason lesbians are depicted less than gay's is because being gay is harder than being lesbian because if you're queer people think that you act like the opposite gender. Society is much more accepting of masculine girls than it is of femenin boys. So, if someone is creating a website to help queer youth then they will probably focus on the issues gay boys face because they face more issues than lesbians. Other forms of media try to make fun of homosexuality so they portray gay boys because they have more negative stereotypes surrounding them. I'm not sure if this harms or helps lesbians, I think it probably does both.
I agree. Lesbians are a bit
I agree. Lesbians are a bit more accepted by society than gay men.
In school, this kid named Paul said in front of my Foods class, "I love lesbians!"
I looked at him and said, "Too bad, they think you're pretty nasty."
It's every straight man's fantasy to get in a three way with two lesbians. It's an illogical dream, mainly due to the fact that most straight men can't separate 'lesbian' from 'bisexual' from 'whore'.
Another thing, the stereotypes following lesbians are much less hated than the stereotypes following gay men. If a woman is "butch" people don't assume that she's a lesbian most of the time. A lot of straight woman athletes are "butch".
If a guy is "femme" then he is automatically considered gay and is avoided by homophobes.
- One Nation, Under Darkness, with liberty and justice for white, heterosexual, rich, Christian men