What makes people gay?
Considering where I'm posting this, I find it unlikely I'll find very many people going into a diatribe about how it's a choice. However, there are a lot of different theories. Some people believe that it's purely genes. Some people, like myself, believe that it's a combination of genes and pre-natal conditions (when you're in your mama's tummy), while others like Andrew Sullivan, believe that early childhood plays a role.
What do you guys think? Why?
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my $ 0.02
i think human beings are naturally bisexual. no one is inherently hertero or homosexual. as infants and children, we have no idea of sex or anything like that. many small children profess their love for members of the same sex. by nature and nurture, we come to find who we are attracted to.
i could go on, but it would end up being very long, so i'll leave it at that.
"Yes! No! Oh, damn!"
Whoah!
I didn't know there were other people who thought that everyone is born without preference!
.oOo.
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2928210/1/
Gay retelling of Disney's Beauty and the Beast. I'm inordinately proud of it.
g-fuckin' netics...
I think that it is an inborn trait...I mean, It's not like I consciously woke up one day and said " I think I'm gonna be a homo"...I think we are born that way.
Mental wounds not healing, driving me insane, i'm goin' off the rails on a crazy train- the ozzman
Born.
Yeah, I think almost everyone on here agrees that we don't choose who we are. We are born that way. But, why are we born that way? Genes, pre-natal conditions, a combination? Does early childhood have something to do with it, even if it's not a choice?
I actually think.....
i actually go way beyond being born this way. I consider myself a lesbian because the female form is so freakin beautiful but I also believe I could fall in love with a guy why? Well I think love has nothing to do with physical gender I think it is spirits connecting. Our soul does not see gender it see's beyond that it is looking for it's other half to make it a whole. In its journey it finds other it can connect with but sometimes not fully. The sexual part may come in when the soul figures out that its other half maybe in one physical form. I don't know I may be being weird or not making sense.
No, Azul Love I think you're
No, Azul Love I think you're right. I feel the same way.
I also think it's partly an unconscious choice. I mean, we see human in two forms: the male and female. The soul is hidden behind the physical features and we must see the person for who they are despite the distractions. So, basically, we are bisexual like lost_in_wonderland said. But we choose what we prefer based on sexual needs and desires. So maybe we subconsciously decide what we'd rather have sexually? But ultimately, it's already "programmed" in us in what we truly desire. It's just we have to dig and discover those feelings. But I don't know. I hope I didn't offend anyone.
~May the spirits guide your every move...to assure you please her in all the right places XD
azul love is sooo right...
right on.... you took the words right out of my mouth... my best friend just admitted to me last week that she is really struggling with her sexuality... her words to me the other night where "since meeting you i have really realized that i fall for the person, for the spirit, not for the physical body... that's second"
Who cares?
Azul is not right. Chances are, Azul is pansexual, so her view of sexuality is bound to be extremely different from that of an exclusively gay, lesbian or straight person.
I find the male body absolutely beautiful in every way. It is sexy and it is appealing. The female body, on the other hand, is beautiful... but I do not find it sexually appealing in any way. Vaginas (to me) are... gross. I can't imagine ever having a sexual relationship with a woman. I very well may love a woman, but it would be limited to a platonic friendship because of my, shall we call them, "sexual limitations" of only finding men sexually attractive. I could not bring myself to have sex with a women, or have a sexual relationship with a woman.
So, I could not fall in love with a women because of certain physical limitations. There is much more the love than sex, of course, but while the soul may not see gender my physical attraction to men definitely does.
In conclusion, to answer the question in this topic, who cares what makes people gay? Nobody can form a definitive answer at this point in time, and when they do find one, it won't matter because at heart we all know what our sexuality lies.
- One Nation, Under Darkness
Gross......
Ummm yah I think it is wrong that you determine my sexuality for me. I am in fact a lesbian. My view is a lesbian view because just as you hate vagina I think penis is gross. I have no problem with you having your own opinion but you have no right to be an idiot and determine my sexuality.
You're so outspoken. I love
You're so outspoken. I love you.
~May the spirits guide your every move...to assure you please her in all the right places XD
Don't insult me with your
Don't insult me with your idiotic "outspoken" comments.
You will never fall in love with a soul because a soul is intangible and is more than likely an invention of mankind. So, fall in love with a man's soul, why don't you? It might be hard if you find their outward appearance to be, as you put it so bluntly, "gross".
Nobody is determining your sexuality but yourself with your talk of "souls".
The very nature of being able to fall in love with a guy means that you're attracted to them, so it is not me who determined your sexuality, it was me interpreting your words as you wrote them and you having written them incorrectly in an attempt at sounding "deep".
- One Nation, Under Darkness
I didn't attempt
I didn't attempt to sound deep. I was writing an answer to the question which was asked. I was writing what I believe. I was talking about falling in love not about sex. Which u could object and say the question that was asked was what makes us gay. Okay, so I moved off the idea of sexuality and moved more towards the idea of love. Well sorry..... It is not hard for me to feel love for a male I have connected deeply with some, but as far as well u know can't really happen. My point being in all this was love is fluid you can feel love for many people because what they have inside or their soul, spirit.....lol. I forgot a soul is only man made so you can't fall in love with it.....:)
Don't turn this into an arguement!
Oh my gosh, just calm down underdarkness. There is misinterpretation somewhere here, whether it be in your reading Azul Love's post or her inability to clearly express what she thinks and feels. The truth is we all can read the same thing but interpret differently, so stop attacking eachother. Of all places, Oasis shouldn't be the place to be arguing over the sexuality of a person. Sheesh.
~May the spirits guide your every move...to assure you please her in all the right places XD
That's a Great Thought, However...
I tried to be bisexual when I was in college, because intellectually, that was the way I thought everyone should be. Alas, though I now have many close female friends, it's guys that crank my hot meter and make me all squishy indside, and no amount of intellectualizing can change that. I honestly think that physically, we probably do all start out in neutral. But sexuality, in my opinion, is not just genetic. I believe that we can probably be genetically predisposed to one orientation or another, but I believe that early childhood has a lot to do with it as well. As far as love transcending physical gender, that's an idea that sounds great on paper. As I discovered, though, nature doesn't usually work out that way. Though I gave bisexuality my best shot, in the end, I found that women just didn't do it for me, physically or romantically. I rather envy those of you who are truly bisexual. I suspect that you're probably the most evolved of all of us. But I quit fighting that battle when I was 21, and am very happy now in my gayness. My advice to the rest of you who can't manage true bisexuality: don't feel bad. There's nothing wrong with you. Whichever gender turns out to give you sweaty palms - boys, girls or both - embrace it and enjoy it. I love guys, and I love loving guys. Perhaps I am not on the highest rung of the evolutionary ladder, but at this point, I wouldn't change myself for anything.
- Pat Nelson Childs
"bringing strong gay
characters to Sci-Fi & Fantasy"
www.myspace.com/patnelsonchilds
I think
its a mixtureof nature and nuture,like it could be in your genes but maybe your upbringing influences it too
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent-Eleanor Roosevelt
*shrug* my random thoughts about this...
** I dunno but like how ya said genes pre-natal conditions a combination does childhood have something to do with it ... what if it's like da first person said everyone's bi then i dunno.. like dont some genes turn on after a while or something?
I agree with azul love tho... cuz i've always felt that pretty much ANY two people could fall in love if they truly open their hearts to each otha ya know are honest and real with eachother? I mean it would help explain how people can do things like date this person then stop and later date a new person or like get married then be divorced or widowed and re-marry or start dating again cha kno?
also yeah we see male and female but we also see like what society has taught us to be femenine and masculine traits of gender . . . i mean i honestly can no longer say i'm straight as i used to say when my friends would say anything and i haven't denied whatever they may think either because i don't know what i am so yup...
Wow
Wow, I'm pretty suprised by the responses I've gotten! Very interesting.
Personally, I feel that it is caused a genetic pre-disposition that is finally determined by pre-natal conditions. For example, studies have shown that a male is drastically more likely to be gay if the his biological mother has beared other male children. Growing up with those children or mother has no effect. What scientists have determined is that when a woman is carying a male fetus she must begin to fight that excess testosterone by producing more estrogen. She will become better at that as she has more male children, henceforth the more male children your mother has the more estrogen you're exposed to in the womb. While there is no defenitive proof that this is what causes many cases of male homosexuality, the corrolation is very clear.
But alas, in a field this unventered (as of now) it seems this wide range of opinion is somewhat liberating from the norm. It seems evident we can disagree about why we are, and still rejoyce that we simply are.
"It seems evident we can
"It seems evident we can disagree about why we are, and still rejoyce that we simply are."
So insightful. So touching. I love it.
~May the spirits guide your every move...to assure you please her in all the right places XD
Pride
Thank you. : )
I hope we truly can rejoyce in who we are, despite what people who are preverted with fear might say.
Tuppence
I hold the opinion that human beings are born with no preference and no gender. Society shapes gender, of course; and to a great extent experience shapes preference. However, like anything else, it is not all black or all white.
I have come to the conclusion that while a great deal of preference is based on one's own past and experiences, there are some things, some seeds perhaps, that were there without outside influence. I don't know why or how, but they are. Illogic is so frustrating, but--surprisingly--I have started to come to terms with the fact that there are things that aren't logical.
.oOo.
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2928210/1/
Gay retelling of Disney's Beauty and the Beast. I'm inordinately proud of it.
Studies Show...
The majority of studies done on this subject show that about half of what causes homosexuality is genetic in base. I gather this mainly from twin studies.
If one separated twin is gay, the other has a 50% chance of being gay as well. That shows a definite level of genetic base for homosexuality, but that also means that there is another 50% to fill in.
So, it has a genetic base to it and without that genetic base, you won't be gay. But, if you have the genes it doesn't necessarily mean you will be gay, rather, it is more likely that you will be predisposed to be gay. The other 50% probably has something to do with very early childhood, which we can chalk up on the blackboard to male/female relationships.
- One Nation, Under Darkness
scince this conversation has
scince this conversation has revived I might as well post my 2 bits...
I think there are a multitude of causes. As much as I hate the idea... it can be a choice... now mind you thats in rare circumstances... but, it can happen. Why someone would do that for any other reason than being in jail, i cant comprehend but.... There is undoubtedly also a genetic factor.. whether it is a mutation or not, we know that atleast in some small way sexual.. orientation can be caused by genetics.... We know this through those evil genetic minipulators on the east coast who were messing with the genes of fruit flies. Another option is that it is a set off of chemicals while insde the whomb... We still are fairly uncertain as to the full effects of things happening during these stages, and how the chemicals play a role in development. So there are some ideas...
Personally, I think its a play off of all three of these plus more factors within the enviroment growing up. As much as i hate to say it, I do believe the christian conservative fundamentalists have some minor point, where children can be confused... and through some odd set of events... lose themselves..... I also believe that the genetic play out can alway over ride choices... genetics are the base of the pyrimid enviroment can only build on genetics....
(AND believe my I have a bleeding lip for typing that I think that the evil christian conservatives can be........ in some..........VERY minor way...... rite
Go to any quiet place and listen, and soon you will hear the voices of those who came before you. Long after we leave this place, our voices will echo in these halls.
I know the answer.
It's faerie dust. Faerie dust makes us gay. ^.^
Be yourself. Because if you're busy being someone else, then who's gonna be you?
:D
That made me smile. Good job, I like you.
- One Nation, Under Darkness
The question is not even worth answering.
After I abandoned liberalism, I realized how useless the question is. The whole debate between nature and nurture more or less presupposes that queer people have to justify their right to exist. As much as we'd like to pretend for the sake of political expediency, we're not the New Black People. If it is a choice, then we shouldn't be given any rights by the State, so conservatives tell us. If it is innate, then why not try to research a "cure"? I think that the debate smacks so much of the scientific inquiry about race and IQ that it's not even funny.
Anyway, if you want my opinion, I say that people are disposed to have one or another preference, or maybe none at all. But I do think that people are in a position to marginally affect their own sexual orientation to the extent they can "acquire" tastes. I consider myself strongly bisexual, and I used to be mostly straight, but now I see myself mostly on the homosexual side on the spectrum. (Although it's probably like 55-45, so it doesn't really matter.) The point is that sometimes we don't really concentrate on the beauty of people in the sex we don't really consider ourselves as strongly gravitated towards, and when we pay careful attention to the characteristics of those people, it affects us in a particular way. Now, this is an anecdotal claim, and a personal claim at that, but I think it still has at least some bearing on things. It is quite possible that we can come to like people of the other sex a little more, or the same sex a little more. To say it is all nurture or nature is absurd, and like I stated earlier, doens't really matter anyway.
"Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it's from Neptune." ~~ Avram Noam Chomsky
Justification
Do I need justification to be? Of course not! Yet, it seems an instrumental device in to the battle to be equally. Should it be? Of course not, but it is. Perhaps if we can prove that sexuality is something natural, not a type of perversion; some might be swain to vote for equal rights.
Not only that, but there was no debate. What is your objection to free exchange of ideas? I asked some people's opinions, and they gave them. As I'm sure you are aware, to many people this is an intriguing question. They have every right to answer it.
Also, the mere thought that we are the “new” anything is ridiculous. Homosexuality did suddenly appear 40 years ago. But, it doesn’t seem that ridiculous to me recognize the similarities between the struggles of LGBT people and the struggles of blacks. Both are repressed minorities that have or are fighting for both equal treatment under the law, and to be viewed as humans by the majority.
When attempting to define the rights of a minority, wouldn’t it be easier to first define the minority? Not all are as enlighten as we, and the mere mention of homosexuality raises so many questions they have no way to look at the issues surrounding it objectively. It seems essential to answer these questions. For our sake, more than to appease bigots desire to explain us away as fallacy.
~haNa